Sep 13 2007
2Clix Sues Whirlpool and Rebrands its Product?
In case you hadn’t heard, Cameron Riley wrote yesterday how 2Clix Suing Whirlpool [founder] is a bad idea.
2Clix sells licenses accounting software, and they are not happy about two forum threads on the popular Whirlpool site (which has over 180,000 registered users). The heavily moderated original forum and another forum thread contained concerns and frustrations from users of the software. Throughout the threads a 2Clix representative, Simon Metcher, did repeatedly offer assistance providing both the corporate and his email address and phone contact.
The plaintiff is seeking damages for injurious falsehoods in the amount of $150,000 and claims losses of $150,000 per month in sales for the period January to July of this year. Furthermore they are asking for the two (above mentioned) threads to be deleted from the forums or
16. “… it [the plaintiff] will continue to suffer irreparable damage to its trade and business.”
I reckon it’s probably a bit too late to worry about irreparable damage. I’m not sure they realise the the viral nature of social media, and the extent to which this legal action will be to their complete detriment. Even IF they win the battle, they will certainly lose the war.
More Information
The Whirlpool forum – 2Clix Sues Whirlpool Founder, Simon Wright, which is going absolutely ballistic.
The very interesting Statement of Claim by 2Clix Australia.
There is a donation fund, but they are actually suggesting that donations are withheld for the time being, until they ascertain their requirements:
Since announcing the legal action last night, Whirlpool has received a large number of small contributions, and a smaller number of larger contributions. This support from the community is much appreciated.
While we are very grateful for your support, members might prefer to hold off on contributions until there is a clearer picture of the extent of Whirlpool’s need for monetary assistance.
The NOT OFFICIAL 2Clix Help site – 2clixhelp with a help forum. Screenshot:
An SMH article, which quotes Amanda Stickley, a senior law lecturer at the Queensland University of Technology, as saying
It would have to prove the statements were false, that they were made in malice, that 2Clix actually suffered damage in the form of monetary loss and, critically, that Wright had intended to cause 2Clix monetary loss by allowing the material to remain on the website.
“I don’t think you could actually prove that for a web operator, that they personally intended the damage because of their malicious intention, especially when it’s posted by a third party that they’ve got no relationship to,” Stickley said.
An ItNews Article.
Living in Canberra – Shut up or we’ll sue you.
(Update) Whirlpool have a wiki showing related news articles.
The 2Clix contingency plan? Platinum One, which has a different phone number, but virtually identical (anonymous) testimonials and about page. Only the business name has been changed to protect the…
Update: This is apparently a completely different product, currently under beta testing. Stephen Tritton from 2 clix states:
We are pleased to announce a partnership with an overseas company and the conversion of Platinum One to Australian standards and accounting. This partnership started 6 months ago and was warmly received by both parties.
Platinum One is Vista complient and uses the latest MySQL Version 5.
It is not yet ready for release and will not be released until fully developed and tested. It will have a similar look to 2Clix to ensure that any of our clients that choose to take up the offer of a free upgrade to Platinum One will have a near-seamless changeover.
2Clix on Digg (682 votes at present).
8 Responses to “2Clix Sues Whirlpool and Rebrands its Product?”
Ouch! – Haven’t read through all the articles you’ve linked out too (where do you get the time to research all this stuff!!) and I’m not really a whirlpool fan and have not heard of 2clix until now.
It kinda looks like they (2clix) tried to do the right thing offering support but, boy, have they opened a can of worms now!
What could have 2clix done – instead of posting support contact details, which is not a bad thing, they could have ‘moved the conversation’ ie. set up there own forum and asked people to provide feedback and engage directly with the engineers at their own site. Just one option anyway.
It also begs another question – what if forums, blog comments and discussions within the new world of social media are used with ill intention? For example running a negative spin campaign against a competitor – apparently there have been murmurings of this taking place in current political circles where negative comment campaigns have been run trying to sway opinions.
As much as interactive communication can be for good, it can also be mis-used.
Challenges – How does the site owner/moderator handle this or even know of it (ie. whos who)?
For a company, person or party in the public limelight welcome to the new age of social media management/online brand management and it’s intricacies.
Hi Rod,
You do make a point about the difficulty in verifying the legitimacy of those comments. I’ve actually seen pathetically disguised attempts to do that on this blog (funny how people don’t know that the IP address is sent with every comment)!
Many of the (original thread) forum participants are members with very low post counts, indicating that this thread was pretty much the only one that they participated in. This could be a little bit suss (as in competitors jumping in). On the other hand, the forum thread was very highly rated on Google, so it does follow that anyone dissatisfied with the product, or looking to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a software license, may well do their homework first.
Are you sure IP addresses are logged with each post? There is no legal obligation to do so…
Even if they are IP addresses can be spoofed, the posts could come from a corporate environment, from a wireless network, from a web cafe.
Even if they did tie an IP to a machine, perhaps this machine is a router in someones home, with 4 people sharing it. Which one of these people are the poster, who knows? They have the right to slience and it’s up to the lawyers to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) they were the one of four who posted.
The point 2clix are making is that whirlpool allowed users to register without verifying who they are, therefore they are responsible for all posts.
Hi Jimbo
I think you misunderstood. With every comment on a blog, the originating IP is cited. I’m not sure what happens in forums such as Whirlpool.
I agree that IP addresses are not necessarily a reliable means of identification.
With regards to registration, according to Electronic Frontiers Australia (EFA) Chairperson Dale Clapperton:
“Forum operators are not required by law to verify the identity of their users, nor is there any reasonable way for them to do so,” Clapperton continued. “Plaintiffs have, in the past, argued that forum operators were ‘reckless’ for not verifying the identity of their users. Forum operators are not the identity police, and the fact that they do not verify users’ identity does not make them liable for what their users say or do.
“EFA understands that Whirlpool engages in moderation of obviously inappropriate content, a practice which EFA endorses. However, forum operators are not equipped, and should not be required, to verify the truth or falsity of criticism posted by third parties. The ultimate responsibility for content posted by third parties lies with the person who posted it.”
See http://www.itwire.com/content/view/14427/53/ and EFA press release for further information.
I could appreciate that some of the major telco’s, like Sensis, would be very interested in the outcome, given some of the discussion threads. And of course this whole case is giving Whirlpool a lot more exposure in the mainstream media.
“And of course this whole case is giving Whirlpool a lot more exposure in the mainstream media.” – damn it, why can’t someone sue me!!lol!
Rod,
LOL (no offense), but I don’t think there would be *quite* the same amount of public outcry.
aahh well, back to frying the eyeballs and tapping my fingers down to stumps!
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